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Brexit
Jul 22, 2021 14:53:13 GMT
Post by jsrace on Jul 22, 2021 14:53:13 GMT
"It should never have gone to a public referendum because nobody understood what they were voting for, despite claims to the contrary."
Fuck me, how arrogant is that statement.
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Post by neilf on Jul 22, 2021 15:15:35 GMT
I voted for Brexit and I am neither racist, nor xenophobic. I couldn't give two shits who wants to come into the UK to work and live, as long as they can contribute to society in a meaningful way, by not sponging off an already overstretched and underfunded benefit system. Problem is Neil, that ending freedom of movement was central to it so it's considerably more difficult for anyone to come here and work, just as it's more difficult for us to live, study and work in Europe. I fail to see how this is a win for anyone. And it's a myth that people come here for benefits. They'll get better benefits almost anywhere else in Europe. The fuck ups in this women's case are, as with many in her position, the procedures which have been put in place to process applications and the bureaucrats running it; the fact that she has been paying tax and national insurance for 30-odd years should make things easier for her stay, not harder! I'm quite sure the same arguments were made for the victims of Windrush. A lifetime of tax and NI are worth fuck all if you don't have ze correct papers! "ending freedom of movement was central to it so it's considerably more difficult for anyone to come here and work, just as it's more difficult for us to live, study and work in Europe" Tourists/students/workers from the EU can still visit the UK for holidays, studying or employment; sure it'll require more paperwork to get into the UK, but if they can prove that they have a legitimate reason for doing so, then so what? If they wanted to do the same with regards to the US, Australia or NZ, they'd have to do similar. It was inevitable that freedom of movement was going to be taken away from UK residents, but I knew that before I voted, so I'm happy to apply for an international driving permit if required. Regarding boarder controls and goods, once the paperwork is in place (which you only have to do once), our goods can travel across the EU relatively unhindered... that's my understand, but I could be wrong. "I'm quite sure the same arguments were made for the victims of Windrush. A lifetime of tax and NI are worth fuck all if you don't have ze correct papers!" I would put the consequences of these issues is down to inadequate bureaucracy, not Brexit! |
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Post by neilf on Jul 22, 2021 15:18:00 GMT
My reason for voting to leave is that I feel that the UK can stand on it's own two feet and still form strong ties with the EU, whilst forming others with countries outside the block. The technical and manufacturing skills in the UK are such that I feel that we can be world leaders, not being ham strung by EU derived legislation saying who and who not we can trade with. That's fair enough Neil but the reality is that labour costs are much lower in the far East. This low cost may be offset to some extent by transport costs therefore it's more cost effective and environmentally friendly to sell your manufactured goods to your near neighbours rather than ship them to the other side of the world. We were already in the world's biggest free trading bloc that allowed us to do that. We are now in the ludicrous position of doing beef deals with Australia while our fishing and farming industries have lost their European market. All predicted. We are also alone and desperate for deals and, as the NI protocol has shown, our negotiatiors are clowns so we're vulnerable. Going back to my earlier statement of "sponging off an already overstretched and underfunded benefit system", I also believe that any short fall in "cheap", ex-soviet block immigrant labour can be filled by the UK population. I personally know of at least 5 people who have not lifted a finger wrt to working in the 30+ since they left school and it's not because they incapable due to illness/circumstance... they have played the benefit system and, for one reason or another, haven gotten away with it. I'm all for people getting help if they ae genuinely deserving of it, but I cannot abide free loaders who expect everything given to them on a plate. The proportion of people who "don't want to work" is tiny. Up to July 2020, only 1% had been unemployed for over 12 months. If you assume that only 50% of those want to work then that leaves just 0.5% who are "work-shy." Given the vast amount of other shite my taxes are spunked on, I'm happy with that particular burden. Eastern Europeans will come here and do shite work for low pay but also live in cramped multiple occupation accommodation to do so. So how do we replace this workforce? Labour camps? Is it not better to welcome these workers here, let them do the work and pay taxes and treat the 0.5% as a social issue? Ultimately, leaving the EU was an extremely complex scenario that was rushed into without sufficient consideration to the important issues. It should never have gone to a public referendum because nobody understood what they were voting for, despite claims to the contrary. Blame Cameron for going for the UKIP vote! |
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Brexit
Jul 22, 2021 15:45:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by elnoodle the reasonable on Jul 22, 2021 15:45:26 GMT
Blame Cameron for going for the UKIP vote! I do. And May for pressing the button and Johnson for... the list is too long. In hindsight Neil, do you feel you were well enough informed prior to voting and if you knew then what you know now, would you have voted the same way and if so, why? Not looking for a bun fight, I'm genuinely interested. It's easy for people who voted remain to point at the mess and say "I told you so" but I'd like to hear the views of a non-flag-shagging-racist leaver on the consequences of their vote and whether they still think it's a good idea. |
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Post by pantah on Jul 22, 2021 16:04:25 GMT
I appreciate your honesty and opinion Neil and regarding the "eastern bloc " workers i saw a piece on the telly box about a daffodil farmer in England who normally employs eu seasonal workers to bring in the harvest (if that's the correct terminology) but because of brexit he was limited to only about 25% of the workforce. I was stunned when he said the pay could be as much as £1000/week but it was hard graft. When asked if he couldn't hire uk labour he laughed and said that he got 5 applicants locally and none managed more than a day before jacking.
What does that tell you?
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Post by armstrongracer on Jul 22, 2021 16:13:56 GMT
Noticed something recently that will be a worry for uk contractors that rely on freedom of travel. I'm an engineering contractor that does pharma and med device projects. Comissioning & stuff. For a few weeks now have been getting unsolicited approaches via linkedin from uk agencies about jobs in Germany, Netherlands & Austria. Asked why they were reaching out to me in ROI and it appears that visa quotas for uk workers are being reached. Another brexit bonus.
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Brexit
Jul 22, 2021 16:53:50 GMT
Post by mekon on Jul 22, 2021 16:53:50 GMT
I appreciate your honesty and opinion Neil and regarding the "eastern bloc " workers i saw a piece on the telly box about a daffodil farmer in England who normally employs eu seasonal workers to bring in the harvest (if that's the correct terminology) but because of brexit he was limited to only about 25% of the workforce. I was stunned when he said the pay could be as much as £1000/week but it was hard graft. When asked if he couldn't hire uk labour he laughed and said that he got 5 applicants locally and none managed more than a day before jacking. What does that tell you? It tells me hard times breed hard men. Hard men make easy times. Easy times make soft men. Soft men make hard times. Import some hard men, these being ones from shit countries. Give them a generation of being well paid and they'll do fuck all as well. People are pampered to fuck these days and everyone has some 'problem' that makes them special. Try working in the public sector with cunty unions like PCS enabling this shit. You'd think you were employed in Mencap or somewhere. In my place 75% of people are either stressed, autistic, have some fringe illness doctors can't diagnose (handy) or I know my rights stop bullying me types. I don't work for the DVLA but it's similar to where I work it will be full of the same sort of cunts. Utter cunt I work with has been doing 3 days in 2 days off but because we had a backlog of stuff that needed to physically cleared and the boss asked him to come in 4 days he's kicking off and crying about covid risk and his health. Because I had a day off this week he complained and said if it was ok for me to have time off then why was he needed in? So hold on, I'm not allowed off work so you can stay off? Working from home is a fucking shambles of cunts taking the piss. |
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Post by jsrace on Jul 22, 2021 17:52:37 GMT
I appreciate your honesty and opinion Neil and regarding the "eastern bloc " workers i saw a piece on the telly box about a daffodil farmer in England who normally employs eu seasonal workers to bring in the harvest (if that's the correct terminology) but because of brexit he was limited to only about 25% of the workforce. I was stunned when he said the pay could be as much as £1000/week but it was hard graft. When asked if he couldn't hire uk labour he laughed and said that he got 5 applicants locally and none managed more than a day before jacking. What does that tell you? Working in Telecomms for the last seven years and a lot find it hard because we are away from home most of the time, and there are a lot of Eastern Europeans that have come over to fill the gaps, who are on the same salary as the Brits! Thankfully the majority have either got Citizenship or are in the process, because if they left, then the industry would collapse overnight because a lot of home grown lazy bastards won't have working in places like the Highlands and Islands because it is too far from home and sounds like too much hard work.
Anyway We have been given the green light to go back north, and look forward to training the Slavic Lads on Brit drinking and Humour habits.
P.S. Its surprising how many of them are ashamed that so many of their country folk come here for the benefits, and they can't work out why out of work brits won't fill the gaps.
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Post by Diego the toe clipper on Jul 23, 2021 7:10:28 GMT
there are a lot of Eastern Europeans that have come over to fill the gaps, who are on the same salary as the Brits! Fucking outrageous. Next you'll be telling that the women earn the same as the men, FFS! Wouldn't have happened under Thatcher, you mark my words. |
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Brexit
Jul 23, 2021 7:44:20 GMT
Post by jsrace on Jul 23, 2021 7:44:20 GMT
there are a lot of Eastern Europeans that have come over to fill the gaps, who are on the same salary as the Brits! Fucking outrageous. Next you'll be telling that the women earn the same as the men, FFS! Wouldn't have happened under Thatcher, you mark my words. Did you think no-one would read the rest of the post after your sad attempt at making me out to be a Xenophobe? |
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Post by pantah on Jul 23, 2021 8:30:00 GMT
there are a lot of Eastern Europeans that have come over to fill the gaps, who are on the same salary as the Brits! Fucking outrageous. Next you'll be telling that the women earn the same as the men, FFS! Wouldn't have happened under Thatcher, you mark my words. That's not my quote ya fucking paella eating ex patrick cunt 😁 |
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Jul 23, 2021 14:34:54 GMT
1.2 million British expats in the EU. 6 million EU Citizens applying for UK Settlement status. Now remind me why you think the EU is a better place than the UK? Seeing as nobody has given a response to this I'll offer an idea or 2. People work abroad for either better pay than at home or the experience. Some come to study and end up staying. The UK has had a good economy compared to some of the poorer EU countries, although the £ dropping to €1.15 from around €1.40-€1.45 where it should be wont be a big incentive now. The £ to Romanian Leu rate has actually improved, same as the € to Leu, so for Romanians working over here havent been affected by currency fluctuations. 20 years ago our pubs were awash with Ozzies and Kiwis behind the bar, not so much these days. Romanians are very good with foreign languages, I think in general everyone learns a foreign language at school. I met a Romanian couple in Germany and the women worked in logistics for Lufthansa and spoke several languages. The bloke spoke German, but not so much English. I said I was going to Romania on my bike later in the year and she mentioned if they didn't understand my Romanian (hadnt learnt any at that stage), didnt speak English, they were very likely to understand French or German. When I went to Romania, there were only 2 places off the tourist trail I stayed at where they only spoke Romanian (at 1 place a guest spoke fluent French so helped out with the finer details, think it was on-suite bathroom or room size). The other place they understood my Romanian, what nice people! So, where do Romanians go abroad to work? UK (800,000-900,000?), Germany (800,000), Italy (1.1m). Italian and Romanian languages are very similar. An English bloke running a B&B in Romania said he could understand 80% of what Italians said. More Romanians go to Italy than anywhere else and I reckon its down to language. Brits are appalling at foreign languages on the whole. There are over 1m Brits in Australia, which has a good economy (currently better than ours no I'd say), decent weather although its too hot for my liking, and most importantly, they speak English. So its no surprise that Brits dont work in Europe, as we are shit at languages. An exception is The Netherlands, it seems you can still make a career over there and not speaking the lingo *looking at Beefus here*. I bet the 1.2m living in the EU arent all fluent in the local lingo. There is old data from 2010, and the UK has the 7th highest number of people who were born outside their resident country as a % of the population. You can click on individual countries for more up to date data. UK data could change post Brexit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Europe#2010_data_for_European_Union_28So just using the 1.2m v 6m numbers to determine where is the best place to work is a none starter, I think its more complicated than that, with language an important issue. |
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Jul 23, 2021 14:42:49 GMT
Fucking outrageous. Next you'll be telling that the women earn the same as the men, FFS! Wouldn't have happened under Thatcher, you mark my words. That's not my quote ya fucking paella eating ex patrick cunt 😁 Its easily done, I've just spent a while trying to sort the quote boxes out. Click on the BBCode tab at the bottom, then its easier to delete the quote boxes as required. |
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Brexit
Jul 23, 2021 17:28:22 GMT
Post by jsrace on Jul 23, 2021 17:28:22 GMT
1.2 million British expats in the EU. 6 million EU Citizens applying for UK Settlement status. Now remind me why you think the EU is a better place than the UK? Seeing as nobody has given a response to this I'll offer an idea or 2. People work abroad for either better pay than at home or the experience. Some come to study and end up staying. The UK has had a good economy compared to some of the poorer EU countries, although the £ dropping to €1.15 from around €1.40-€1.45 where it should be wont be a big incentive now. The £ to Romanian Leu rate has actually improved, same as the € to Leu, so for Romanians working over here havent been affected by currency fluctuations. 20 years ago our pubs were awash with Ozzies and Kiwis behind the bar, not so much these days. Romanians are very good with foreign languages, I think in general everyone learns a foreign language at school. I met a Romanian couple in Germany and the women worked in logistics for Lufthansa and spoke several languages. The bloke spoke German, but not so much English. I said I was going to Romania on my bike later in the year and she mentioned if they didn't understand my Romanian (hadnt learnt any at that stage), didnt speak English, they were very likely to understand French or German. When I went to Romania, there were only 2 places off the tourist trail I stayed at where they only spoke Romanian (at 1 place a guest spoke fluent French so helped out with the finer details, think it was on-suite bathroom or room size). The other place they understood my Romanian, what nice people! So, where do Romanians go abroad to work? UK (800,000-900,000?), Germany (800,000), Italy (1.1m). Italian and Romanian languages are very similar. An English bloke running a B&B in Romania said he could understand 80% of what Italians said. More Romanians go to Italy than anywhere else and I reckon its down to language. Brits are appalling at foreign languages on the whole. There are over 1m Brits in Australia, which has a good economy (currently better than ours no I'd say), decent weather although its too hot for my liking, and most importantly, they speak English. So its no surprise that Brits dont work in Europe, as we are shit at languages. An exception is The Netherlands, it seems you can still make a career over there and not speaking the lingo *looking at Beefus here*. I bet the 1.2m living in the EU arent all fluent in the local lingo. There is old data from 2010, and the UK has the 7th highest number of people who were born outside their resident country as a % of the population. You can click on individual countries for more up to date data. UK data could change post Brexit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Europe#2010_data_for_European_Union_28So just using the 1.2m v 6m numbers to determine where is the best place to work is a none starter, I think its more complicated than that, with language an important issue. Cracking bit of spin there Phil and I take my hat off to you! But the fact remains
1.2 million British expats in the EU.
6 million EU Citizens applying for UK Settlement status.
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Post by roobarb on Jul 23, 2021 18:02:24 GMT
One man's "expat" is another man's "migrant"
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