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Post by beefus on Oct 4, 2021 14:46:22 GMT
I think we are heading into a very oppressive place wrt the COVID19 vaccine. We are already seeing any anti-vaccine narratives being censored online by big Tech, the same happened last year when any mention of a lab leak was shutdown, until information came to light that made this a very real possibility, then it was allowed to be mentioned. I've been vaccinated not because I am pro-vaccine but because I want to get on with my life with minimal fuss, but I will defend those who refuse to be vaccinated, they know the risks, but they shouldn't be excluded from society.
I can still get COVID and pass it on with potentially life-threatening consequences to someone who hasn't been vaxxed. But it looks like we are heading towards creating an underclass of social lepers who will be/are being excluded?
Where will a mandate end?.....never?...will we have to get a jab every year?...efficacy wanes over time (4 to 6 months), so I see this as a real possibility. Look to Israel to see the high number of infections now, including vaccinated people, this is what will happen in other countries soon (Israel's vaccine rollout finished in early 2021 so they are ahead of the curve). This is going to be with us for the duration so we may as well learn to live with it like we do the flu, and let people decide for themselves whether to vax or not.
30000 flu deaths per annum?....do we all need to get teh flu jab?
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Post by mekon on Oct 4, 2021 18:19:52 GMT
Black Mirror - social credit score China is where it's heading. Mr Robot got the wrong target. THey need to destroy social media companies and all their data.
Covid is fucking bullshit anyway. I know you get fat cunts who get really ill like my fat friend at work but he was health disaster anyway. Average age of Covid death in Italy is 86!!! Eighty fucking six!!! With Spanish Flu the average mortality age was 28% less than the average life span.
I got vaccinated because I've got some responsibility to stay alive I guess and give my thyroid is half dead I guess I didn't want to play the unvaxxed card as knowing my luck I'd end up as 'anti-vaxxer dies' . If I was perfectly healthy I think I'd have said fuck it and not bothered.
I'm starting to think Australia is some big experiment to see how far you can push people. Imagine if this is all one hilarious experiment with different control groups....a bit like the Fallout games. Remember when stuff like America starting the Vietnam war and no WMDs were conspiracy theories and look what happened.
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Post by elnoodle the reasonable on Oct 4, 2021 23:10:26 GMT
I think we are heading into a very oppressive place wrt the COVID19 vaccine. We are already seeing any anti-vaccine narratives being censored online by big Tech, the same happened last year when any mention of a lab leak was shutdown, until information came to light that made this a very real possibility, then it was allowed to be mentioned. I've been vaccinated not because I am pro-vaccine but because I want to get on with my life with minimal fuss, but I will defend those who refuse to be vaccinated, they know the risks, but they shouldn't be excluded from society. I can still get COVID and pass it on with potentially life-threatening consequences to someone who hasn't been vaxxed. But it looks like we are heading towards creating an underclass of social lepers who will be/are being excluded? Where will a mandate end?.....never?...will we have to get a jab every year?...efficacy wanes over time (4 to 6 months), so I see this as a real possibility. Look to Israel to see the high number of infections now, including vaccinated people, this is what will happen in other countries soon (Israel's vaccine rollout finished in early 2021 so they are ahead of the curve). This is going to be with us for the duration so we may as well learn to live with it like we do the flu, and let people decide for themselves whether to vax or not. 30000 flu deaths per annum?....do we all need to get teh flu jab? None of this is black and white. Firstly, Facebook, twitter, etc are privately owned online platforms. If certain narratives are closed down can it really be called censorship? You are still free to find another platform to spout pish. Also, mental conspiracy theories have a habit of growing arms and legs among the hard of thinking leading to a type of cult mentality. I don't like the idea of restricting free speech but it's not speaker's corner with 6 dafties listening. People who believe all sorts of shite become emboldened when they know that thousands of other people believe the same shite. There's no doubt that the vaccines have been disappointing. Yes they stop most cunts from getting as sick and potentially dying but they clearly don't stop you from catching or spreading Covid so it's difficult to see how a vaccinated cunt is less of a risk at a football match than an unvaccinated cunt. I don't therefore see the value in a vaccination passport and don't quite understand why people who don't have one should be banned from large events and nightclubs. Ultimately we will learn to live with it, my concern is new variants mutating that resist the vaccines. I don't think we're out of this by a long way. I hope I'm wrong. |
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Post by armstrongracer on Oct 5, 2021 5:09:40 GMT
Yes I agree that vaxxed people can get Cov but analysis of hospitalisations over here show that more than 90% of serious hospitalisations (deaths & intensive care) are unvaxed. Everyone relies on availability of hospital beds even more so if they are elderly, have existing conditions that make them vulnerable or partake in more risky activities (eg: cycling, motorcycling). Staying unxaxed by choice in my optinion is just selfish. For the sake of family, friends and society in general we need to take pressure off our social and medical services.
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Post by Diego the toe clipper on Oct 5, 2021 6:45:29 GMT
I don't think that I'd go as far as to say that unvaxed people are selfish. People have always done risky things which sometimes need the support of the health service to sort out when it goes wrong.
Ultimately the decision is to their own detriment in the most part and affects them more that the rest of us. We have a similar situation in Spain where the huge majority of Intensive Care patients are unvaxed, but it isn't really causing a collapse in the heath system.
Actually, I find it odd that a person who has evaluated the facts with respect to severity of illness or risk of dying face down rammed with tubes and decides it's worth the risk, would then complain that he/she isn't allowed in a night club or cinema. A very odd set of priorities are being set in that decision process, but again, some people jump off mountains dressed like a flying squirrel...
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Post by mekon on Oct 5, 2021 6:53:42 GMT
Didn't the one of the pharma companies just admit that natural antibodies from having covid are far superior to the vaccine? I don't think it's a big deal for most of the population. I think what we are not looking at his how many people have died of other things due to Tiktok dancing on wards and massive backlogs.
The problem is with the way governments are recording covid. You get cancer, get terminally ill, catch covid off staff but end up as a Covid stat and probably blamed for not having the vaccine at the same time. It's the same with admission with Covid. It's really admissions that ended up with covid as well admission because of covid. The waters are very muddy and it's probably done on purpose.
Funny actually just type in 'mortality rates for....' and covid didn't autofill. Nothing to see here....no information control going on.
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Oct 5, 2021 7:41:45 GMT
Didn't the one of the pharma companies just admit that natural antibodies from having covid are far superior to the vaccine? I don't think it's a big deal for most of the population. I think what we are not looking at his how many people have died of other things due to Tiktok dancing on wards and massive backlogs. The problem is with the way governments are recording covid. You get cancer, get terminally ill, catch covid off staff but end up as a Covid stat and probably blamed for not having the vaccine at the same time. It's the same with admission with Covid. It's really admissions that ended up with covid as well admission because of covid. The waters are very muddy and it's probably done on purpose. Funny actually just type in 'mortality rates for....' and covid didn't autofill. Nothing to see here....no information control going on. Massive backlogs? Think of the length of backlogs if nobody took a vaccine. Its no surprise to me that people have stronger antibodies after having the virus, because they have had the actual virus, and not some manmade vaccine which stimulates your body to produce antibodies to protect you from a virus. Google autofill - Thats because it only autofills what the FAQs are. I bet you believe the IT millennium bug was a non existent/hoax thing as well. |
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Oct 5, 2021 7:52:51 GMT
There's no doubt that the vaccines have been disappointing. Yes they stop most cunts from getting as sick and potentially dying but they clearly don't stop you from catching or spreading Covid so it's difficult to see how a vaccinated cunt is less of a risk at a football match than an unvaccinated cunt. I don't therefore see the value in a vaccination passport and don't quite understand why people who don't have one should be banned from large events and nightclubs. I think the vaccine is quite a success. Its well proven that if you have had the jab you are less likely to be a burden on our health service. So if someone at an event hasnt had a jab and gets covid they are more likely to need a hospital bed than a jabbed person at the same event. If we didnt have a vaccine, we would now either be in lockdown or facing patients dying outside hospitals plus no other A&E admittances. We are getting more back to normal. We were talking about this down the beach a couple of days ago. One of our windsurf group has had to have another operation (2 actually) in the past month for a herniated disc. He is lucky he didnt have to wait long as covid has caused delays. One bloke said he hasnt had the jab yet as he is waiting to see what effect it has on the body. I said it stops you being seriously ill for one. He said it affects t-cells blah blah blah, he has looked into it as his wife is having cancer treatment etc, wants to wait a bit. You should have seen the face of another who is a retired doctor. |
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Post by elnoodle the reasonable on Oct 5, 2021 7:55:54 GMT
...analysis of hospitalisations over here show that more than 90% of serious hospitalisations (deaths & intensive care) are unvaxed. That's fair enough but those people could have been infected by a vaccinated person. Surely the moral justification of a vaccination passport is that you are saying to an individual "you can't enter this venue unvaccinated in case you spread infection"? This is a public health justification but it's not actually true, is it? So what you are really saying is "you can't enter this venue unvaccinated in case you get sick." There is a justification for saying this but it's very different to the premise of the vaccine passport and when the vast majority of adults are vaccinated then you really have to question the reasons for insisting on it. |
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Oct 5, 2021 7:56:32 GMT
Yes I agree that vaxxed people can get Cov but analysis of hospitalisations over here show that more than 90% of serious hospitalisations (deaths & intensive care) are unvaxed. Everyone relies on availability of hospital beds even more so if they are elderly, have existing conditions that make them vulnerable or partake in more risky activities (eg: cycling, motorcycling). Staying unxaxed by choice in my optinion is just selfish. For the sake of family, friends and society in general we need to take pressure off our social and medical services. I agree. Its easy to compare here, Patients in hospital vs Cases by specimen date. coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcareIts still going to be a tough winter for the health service because they normally operate at nearly 100% capacity in the winter as it is without covid. |
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Post by mekon on Oct 5, 2021 8:05:18 GMT
Seriously Phil...Covid mortality rates aren't a FAQ? Not like it's in public eye or anything I'd guess. Type in 'white women' into google images and see what you get.
You aware that the government paid 'influencers' and Youtubers to push pro-vaccination views?
Still waiting for camera up the arse. I was sent a letter saying they'd ring me whenever. Whenever is now literally months ago. No contact at all, just you are in a queue. The first letter I got stated there would be no others letters I would just get rung whenever. No wonder people are going private if they can afford it. I'm sure they are 'working hard' but the NHS is shit, I think Estonia ranks higher than us. Then again I remember when my lad broke his arm and the cunts in front of us where in A and E because they had headaches from dehydration....from drinking. Those sort of cunts need to hang.
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Oct 5, 2021 8:23:44 GMT
Seriously Phil...Covid mortality rates aren't a FAQ? Not like it's in public eye or anything I'd guess. Type in 'white women' into google images and see what you get. You aware that the government paid 'influencers' and Youtubers to push pro-vaccination views? Still waiting for camera up the arse. I was sent a letter saying they'd ring me whenever. Whenever is now literally months ago. No contact at all, just you are in a queue. The first letter I got stated there would be no others letters I would just get rung whenever. No wonder people are going private if they can afford it. I'm sure they are 'working hard' but the NHS is shit, I think Estonia ranks higher than us. Then again I remember when my lad broke his arm and the cunts in front of us where in A and E because they had headaches from dehydration....from drinking. Those sort of cunts need to hang. I just tried it. Guess, what, it autofills. Did you actually try it yourself or read it on a forum somewhere? White women in images as well. Is it any different to what I would expect? Black women google hairstyles more? Google is driven by sponsored ads, so google will also look at your other personal information you have shared on the net before autofilling as well. Why did I choose to add black women after that? Because you are a bit racist perhaps.  Attachments:
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Post by Diego the toe clipper on Oct 5, 2021 8:33:30 GMT
...analysis of hospitalisations over here show that more than 90% of serious hospitalisations (deaths & intensive care) are unvaxed. That's fair enough but those people could have been infected by a vaccinated person. Surely the moral justification of a vaccination passport is that you are saying to an individual "you can't enter this venue unvaccinated in case you spread infection"? This is a public health justification but it's not actually true, is it? So what you are really saying is "you can't enter this venue unvaccinated in case you get sick." There is a justification for saying this but it's very different to the premise of the vaccine passport and when the vast majority of adults are vaccinated then you really have to question the reasons for insisting on it. I get your point mr. Ramen but you are forgetting that even though the vaccine protects the individual primarily against getting very ill or death when infected, it does, to a lesser extent prevent spread. So there is some logic to keeoing them out. I think there are political agendas (of course) in play with this too. In the UK was the vaccine really pushed as something which would have a huge impact in stopping infections? Was the publc mislead into thinking nobody would get sick once we had herd immunity? Over here at least the primary message was that the vaccine would reduce the symptoms in the most part to not requiring hospital treatment, and that it would increase your chances of survival in case you did get very ill. Both of those are true and in that respect there is no "disappointment" with the results. That said, if I am in a restaurant and suddenly I become aware that the morons on the table next to me are not vaccinated I won't enter into panic mode and leave, running and screaming from the place, because it is only going to have a very small probability of affecting me as a vaccinated person. I'd be more interested in seeing if they also indulge in any other illogical risky practices like jabbing the forks in the eyes or trying to swallow the steak knives. |
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Oct 5, 2021 8:36:02 GMT
You aware that the government paid 'influencers' and Youtubers to push pro-vaccination views? Still waiting for camera up the arse. I was sent a letter saying they'd ring me whenever. Whenever is now literally months ago. No contact at all, just you are in a queue. The first letter I got stated there would be no others letters I would just get rung whenever. No wonder people are going private if they can afford it. I'm sure they are 'working hard' but the NHS is shit, I think Estonia ranks higher than us. Then again I remember when my lad broke his arm and the cunts in front of us where in A and E because they had headaches from dehydration....from drinking. Those sort of cunts need to hang. Yes, plenty of ads by black and asian people as the take up of the vaccine wasnt so high in those communities as it should be. The NHS has always been a postcode lottery in some respects. Its been underfunded by the Tories for years. I think the Germans pay more in tax for their's, but get a better service. |
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Post by philthewindsurfer on Oct 5, 2021 9:00:33 GMT
I think there are political agendas (of course) in play with this too. In the UK was the vaccine really pushed as something which would have a huge impact in stopping infections? Was the publc mislead into thinking nobody would get sick once we had herd immunity? Over here at least the primary message was that the vaccine would reduce the symptoms in the most part to not requiring hospital treatment, and that it would increase your chances of survival in case you did get very ill. Both of those are true and in that respect there is no "disappointment" with the results. I think people forget it was developed to act against the first strain and some subsequent strains like Delta are more vigorous. At one point BJ was also saying BREXIT has enabled the UK to develop the CV vaccine more efficiently. The people involved have been developing and making vaccines for years. They were founded 2005. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenner_Institute Spinoff from that is Vaccitech, and they started January 2016 pre BREXIT, the company now floated on the US stock market. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccitech |
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